Episode 30 – The Language of Leadership: A Conversation with Bob Pizzini

side-by-side pictures of host Norah L. Jones and guest Robert Pizzini
It's About Language, with Norah Jones
It's About Language, with Norah Jones
Episode 30 - The Language of Leadership: A Conversation with Bob Pizzini

“My two-word definition of leadership is “enabling others.” And then the longer version of that is to use my education, my experience and my training to enable others to accomplish their objectives. True leadership brings opportunities for growth; we find or create opportunities where they don’t necessarily exist.”

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Robert Pizzini’s definition of leadership is “enabling others.” Acting and reflecting on this simple definition, Bob has provided powerful leadership within both military and civilian environments. His courses reveal pathways for other leaders into those words and behaviors that address a wide range of leadership settings and needs, so that they are enabled to turn and grow the leadership of others.

What is your definition of leadership?

What words, stories, and commitments underlie your own work as a leader, be it in your home, community, or workplace?

Whom have you empowered in their growth into responsibility and leadership? What anchored your work? What did you say, and what did you do?

Whom do you admire as a leader in your own life? What characteristics and actions have prompted your admiration?

Each of the sitations in which we find ourselves in life are a type of culture. Be it family, friendship, school, work, recreation, community gathering or action, each one has its own type of culture, and with it, language that enables or blocks, that lifts up or casts down, that brings harmony or leads to discord. And for each culture, there are leaders, whether we have so labeled them or not. Those who understand the language of leadership can speak the words that build up individuals and societies, and, as Bob shares with us in this podcast, train others to “speak leadership” and empower others also.

Enjoy the podcast.

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It’s About Language – Episode 30 – The Language of Leadership: A Conversation with Bob Pizzini

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[Podcast lead-in and introduction]

Norah Jones:                     It’s a great pleasure for me to bring as my guest today, Bob Pizzini. How are you doing, Bob?

Bob Pizzini:                        I’m doing great. How are you, Norah?

Norah Jones:                     I’m doing well. And I need to do just a little more Italian on that one. Pizzini. Okay?

Bob Pizzini:                        Pizzini.

Norah Jones:                     Pizzini. Bob Pizzini. And I am excited to share you with the podcast listeners, because you have, well, many things that you’re going to share with us today. A wonderful site in Virginia Beach, where people can do the skydiving they’ve always dreamed of, but with actual help. And this course, “Elevate Your Leadership,” which I wanted to take—thank you very much for having me as part of the course—the moment I saw it, and one of the things that appealed to me and was confirmed in the course is that you are based in the language of leadership and the culture of leadership. And you translated it beautifully during the course from your native language, if you will, of the military, to civilian language and civilian culture, especially through storytelling. Why was it important to you to bring that story, leadership, out to the world, Bob?

Bob Pizzini:                        I think that leaders are always learning and storytelling can only be done if leaders reflect on their experiences. And if they’ve done enough deep reflection, there’s a lot of value that people can pull out of those experiences. So if people are metacognitive, if they think very deliberately about what they’ve learned along the way, then they have something very valuable to share with others. And it’s a very deliberate process though. And unfortunately I think most of us don’t do that. And those that do do it, have something very valuable to share with others.

Norah Jones:                     What are some of the aspects of a methodical, careful, planned opportunity to understand this, again, language and culture of leadership?

Bob Pizzini:                        I think that people should have a deliberate process. And, you know, as I discuss the art of leadership and the science of leadership, I talk about my deliberate process. And for the art, for example, my deliberate process is first to have my own personal definition of the word “leadership.” And then I build upon that with leadership styles that I’m comfortable with and I think I’m good with. And power types that I use to good effect. And when I say good effect, that’s for the good of the team. So, again, I think that people have to have a foundation, that foundation has to built on something. For me, it’s defining “leadership” and reminding myself of that definition every single day. That way I know if I’m leading or if I’m doing something other than leading.

And then once again, leadership styles, power types, and then something else that I call critical traits. So having this deliberative process I think is critical to being the most effective leader you can be for the greatest amount of people over the longest duration of time. And that’s what we look for in our leadership is to be highly effective, affect a lot of people and be good at what you do for your entire career. And hopefully that’s a long career.

Norah Jones:                     Indeed. Sounds powerful, because it’s about duration as well as specific approach. What is the definition of leadership that you share with the world, Bob?

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. My two-word definition is “enabling others.” And then the longer version of that is to use my education, my experience and my training to enable others to accomplish their objectives.

Norah Jones:                     What are some of the objectives that you had in mind for yourself when you thought of leadership and that you find are, shall I put it this way, most effective in those that you train and work with?

Bob Pizzini:                        Sure. Let me just kind of set the scene a little bit because I was in the military for 26 years, and there’s a very specific and well-timed training process, leadership training process in the military. And I think it’s of tremendous value. Now, the military can be quite directive at times, which is appropriate in situations where life and death, damage to property, et cetera, all that is on the line. So kind of an emergency responder type of situation. But then there’s also a time where leaders have flexibility and they have to recognize that. And it’s in those moments of flexibility that you can really enable others to lead, to accomplish their objectives, to grow, to develop professionally. Those are the things that I think true leadership brings to the team. You bring opportunities for growth, and you find opportunities where they don’t necessarily exist, or you create opportunities for growth amongst your teammates, where those opportunities don’t necessarily exist.

Norah Jones:                     That’s a powerful vision. Let me ask you, Bob, when you are around people in the military, now that you are working with this training outside of the military, are there words that some people use or behaviors that some people use that attract attention of current leaders to know that there is potential there? Or does everyone have potential?

Bob Pizzini:                        I would say that just about everyone has potential, but there are words and actions without a doubt. And those words and actions are number one, are they following my example? Are they aligning with my initiatives, with my vision? If I’ve communicated my vision properly, are my teammates aligning with that vision? And one clear indicator of that is if they use your language. If they can… Like my definition of leadership, for example, I share that with everybody: enabling others. And when they use your language, either with each other, with their peer group, or when they use your language back at you, or sometimes I like to call it using my own words against me. [laughter] That’s when you’re really being effective. And I’ll give you an example of that.

Norah Jones:                     Okay.

Bob Pizzini:                        We have in a book I read called [Creating] The High-Performance Workplace by Sue Bingham and Bob Dusin, they talk about assuming the positive. So if somebody made a mistake or if something seems to be wrong, rather than assume that they were intentionally devious or, you know, errant, assume that the person intended well and something went wrong. So in your inquiry, in your approach, you would assume the positive. And 95% of the time or greater, that is a correct assumption. So you assume the positive in people coming up short, if you will. And then you put them on a path to recovery. You identify the problem together, and hopefully they come up with a solution. One more example of that is when… I have six people on my management team, and we talk about things like the trough.

So Daniel Pink wrote a book. And in this book he talks about peak trough recovery. My whole team has been educated on peak trough and recovery. And quite simply peak is a highly productive time, trough is I can’t get anything done time, and recovery is something in between. So when we sit down once a week for the management meeting, we look for people in the trough or people in the trough use the language, they go, “I’m sorry, I’m in a trough right now.” And so when we use that common language, that’s unique to the aspects of leadership that we pay attention to. It becomes a very powerful force for the team.

Norah Jones:                     And it’s interesting because you cited a particular author, a particular book, and using the language of that. But it strikes me now that your team has kind of its own vocabulary for understanding that there’s mutual agreement on approaches, as you put it earlier. That strikes me that there’s kind of a culture of leadership then within each organization. Is that true, do you think?

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. You know, that’s exactly right. And thank you, because you’re helping me awaken and be alert to my organization. There is a culture of leadership. I talk about culture within the workplace quite a bit, and that’s a very important aspect of the workplace. But culture of leadership is something that I have certainly built within my organization, but I never called it that. And so thank you for helping me further enable a culture of leadership just by acknowledging that there is one.

Norah Jones:                     Well, I’m delighted that that question brought that out and may it continue to bear fruit for you. It’s interesting because again, the point of view of translating the culture that you experienced in the military to your current business, was there difficulty when you first started this? Did you find that it was hard to translate your native language, if I keep using that concept?

Bob Pizzini:                        Yes. And the answer to that is yes. And I’ll give you a few examples. So when I established my business, I have 35 people on the team. Now, when I was active duty, I was the operations officer for an EOD, Explosive Ordnance Disposal mobile unit. I had nine teams assigned to me. Those nine teams had about 10 people per team. So, I was responsible for operationally deploying roughly 100 individuals amongst those nine or so teams. But at any rate, there’s a structure within that team dynamic. And I use that structure… Basically, there’s one line leader, if you will. Platoon leader for every five or six, maybe up to 10 teammates, 10 employees. So, I set that structure up internally. So there’s accountability and reporting and channels of communication and chain of command, et cetera.

And that all was and continues to work very well. What I did wrong is I put people in leadership positions who were not prepared for it. And my mistake there was in the military when you’re 23, 24, 25 years old, if you enlisted at the age of 18, you’re on your second or third leadership assignment, when you’re 25. In the private sector, leadership training really doesn’t happen. It doesn’t happen in the colleges and universities unless somebody gets a graduate program. But again, that’s just education. And education without experience is merely philosophy. The hard-hitting leadership experience that a 25-year-old has in the military is what I lived with for 26 years of my career. So when I started my private business, I put 25-, 26-year-olds in key leadership positions. They had education, they had prior work experience, but they didn’t have the tools of leadership. And therefore, they failed. But that was really my failure because I did not set them up for success.

So that’s one example of how my military expectation did not translate accordingly. Another example is the language. So it’s not noon, yeah. So we’d say, nine hundred [09:00], ten hundred [10:00], ten forty-five [10:45], eleven hundred [11:00]. But when you get to twelve hundred [12:00] and thirteen hundred [13:00] and fourteen hundred [14:00], one o’clock, two o’clock, three o’clock. Just using that simple military vernacular does not go over well in the private sector. [laughter] Nor should it. What was I thinking? What the hell was I thinking? Hey, at fourteen hundred, we’re going to have a staff meeting. Everybody’s like, what are you talking about?

Norah Jones:                     Oh my.

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. And there’s a couple other things. But for the most part, the good stuff did translate very well. And those who are true teammates and on board, they appreciate it. They understand it. They appreciate it. And I will say that they course correct. Like that fourteen hundred thing I just gave you. They’re like, “Boss, quit doing that.”

Norah Jones:                     Uh-huh (affirmative). Interesting. Interesting.

[Promotional material]

Norah Jones:                     So, they themselves are helping to train you in the new lingo.

Bob Pizzini:                        Oh, no question about it. The feedback I get, that comes from a team with very high trust. You have to have high trust. But I want my assumptions to be challenged, to make sure that I’m making the best decision possible. And so, something as simple as saying, “Boss, quit using the military time,” or some other things, that’s feedback that I value.

Norah Jones:                     Mm-hmm. And you just used two words I’m going to have to bring you back to. You talked about, and I’m going to use again, the culture as the basis. There’s a culture of trust, and there’s a culture in which you were challenged. How do you provide the words and the experiences so that that kind of culture, both trust and challenge, can be developed?

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. So I think the way it happened with my current team—and keep in mind my general manager, my sales or marketing manager, my special programs manager, my customer service manager, they’ve all been on board now for, well, the general manager and the sales and marketing manager have been on board from the beginning. So just about eight years. So we’ve worked together now for eight years. And then the others, we’ve all been together… They’re probably in year three, year four, something like that. So we’ve all been together for a long time. And over that period of time, a very high degree of trust either takes hold or it doesn’t. And there’s a couple other managers that aren’t here anymore. Like I said, it was my fault in putting them in a role they weren’t ready for.

But one of the things that happened is that trust was not able to develop. And as a matter of fact, whatever trust there was actually deteriorated. But we have a high degree of trust amongst the team. They can come to me with anything, at least I hope that’s the case. But I think it is. And I think it’s been proven because they’ve come to me with things. Again, challenged my assumptions. And I didn’t snap, or I didn’t take anybody’s head off. I said, “Thank you for the observation.” In a couple of cases, I’ve said, “Thank you for keeping me from doing something really stupid.” After some discussion, they’re like, “What are you thinking? Are you really going to do that?” And so it takes time to develop trust. And the trust on my team, if somebody doesn’t show up or they’re late, it’s not “why were you late?” It’s “are you okay?” There’s an immediate concern for the teammate’s wellbeing—again, assuming the positive, right? I’m not assuming that they’re doing something they’re not supposed to be doing.

Norah Jones:                     Bob, there’s a modeling there, but there’s also a labeling of the modeling, so that people are understanding what they see, not only in the behaviors, but also in words. How do you go about making sure that you have, well, the modeling is part of your character, you, Bob Pizzini. But you are able to then label that, both right in your staff and also for these courses that you provide. How do you go about the reflection that allows that to happen?

Bob Pizzini:                        The simple answer to that is through core values. And within my organization, we have three core values, which are loyalty, integrity and professionalism. I briefed the team on core values. I asked people to tell me about core values. I asked people to tell me how they thought about and applied one of those three core values in their work day yesterday, or last week, or last month. I keep those core values a very bright blip on the radar screen. I keep those core values front and center. And again, I want the team talking to each other about core values. And when I in-brief every new teammate and I talk about core values, I talk about how we use core values to lift each other up, to help each other out, but also to call each other out. We can call each other out in a way that’s not offensive to make sure that we’re keeping our teammates in the right lane, on the right track, et cetera.

And so, I like to, first of all, I like to apply the following to myself. And then I ask my team to do this. If somebody asks me to do something and it’s not an immediate yes. If I have a hesitation, I compare it against the core values. Am I violating loyalty? If I say yes or no, depending on whatever they asked. Am I violating integrity? If I say yes or no. Am I violating professionalism? If they say yes or no. And if any one of those holds me up, then I’ve got to go talk to somebody about this and make sure I’m making the right decision. But that’s what I want my teammates to do. Gauge the situation against our core values, loyalty, integrity and professionalism. And if the answer is not clear, go talk to somebody about it.

Norah Jones:                     Wow. That’s powerful. Yeah. That would sure make a difference. No question. Thank you for sharing that. And Bob, I’m turning to kind of like the idea of education. All right. You have, in iFLY Virginia Beach, you have something that is, yeah, it’s about jumping out of airplanes. But it’s not just about that, I presume. And I’d like you, if you could, and if you can’t, separate them out, but you mentioned earlier that young people that have gone through education and not begun the leadership opportunities in the military at an earlier age, 18, 19, et cetera, sort have a different start. You made some mistakes there as far as believing what they were able to do from a leadership point of view. There’s a lot of educators that listen to this podcast, and they are overwhelmed. And systems are hard to work with sometimes. But do you have any insights into how it is that young people in schools could be prepared a little bit more for leadership? So, there were two things, I think they might actually go together, but if not take them apart, please.

Bob Pizzini:                        Well, I think that in schools, those core values I just mentioned, there has to be… Moral and ethical character has to be developed. And it’s part of the school system. It’s certainly the responsibility of the household of the family, but moral and ethical character has to be well-developed. And unfortunately, I think that’s the part that’s coming up short. All these other things get attention, but developing great moral and ethical character is getting the short end. And we develop that through our religious affiliations, we develop that through our family or our extended family or our neighborhoods. And if all those are in alignment, people have great moral and ethical character.

But when one of those things is askew, it can make people think and act differently. We are the product of our childhood experiences. And if those experiences are challenging, then I think people will have a tendency to view life as a challenge. And there’s also timing throughout the day. Just going back and taking your example of the classroom. There’s timing throughout the day. People in the morning are generally more receptive, more alert, more analytical, more cognitive, if you will. And then that just decreases throughout the day. So by afternoon, things can be quite challenging. I’ll take a pause there. I know I went all over the place.

Norah Jones:                     No, not at all. I mean, I’m feeling it with my gut, having the kinds of classes in a seven-period day, for example. Absolutely. So thank you for that. And how about then what you see when you bring folks in from all, I expect, different expectations of what will happen with iFLY Virginia Beach. Why did you set that up? And what do you discover that relates to your leadership that you always bring to what you’re doing?

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. Are you talking about the Elevate Your Leadership experience? Or just…

Norah Jones:                     Well, I was talking specifically about the iFLY Virginia Beach, but for sure you can also include the course.

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. Well, within iFLY, I mean, again, 35 people on the team. Six people on the management team. And we have a very deliberate process of communication. We have the core values that I mentioned. And the core values are actually a component of the overall mission statement or what I call the strategic plan. Every year, I author a new strategic plan. But most of it is the same from year to year. For example, mission, vision and values. In theory, an organization’s mission, vision and values would never change. But I actually changed my mission statement just this past year. My old mission statement was “We deliver the dream of flight.” But after seven years of delivering the dream of flight, what I’ve noticed is we bring people together through the flight experience or through the dream of flight.

So that’s our new mission statement. “We bring people together through the dream of flight.” But I’ve got the mission statement. I have our vision statement. And to summarize our vision statement, it basically says, we’re going to be the best in the industry, we’re going to lead the industry, and we’re going to innovate. We’re going to adapt and innovate and be leaders in the industry. So that’s the vision. And then values, I already mentioned. Loyalty, integrity, and professionalism. So that’s the top part. There’s four sections to my strategic plan. That’s section one. Mission, vision, values. And then I’ve got a motto, which is “Excellence in all we do.” I’ve stole that straight from… That’s an Air Force core value. Stolen straight from the Air Force.

Norah Jones:                     Yeah. Go for it. Yeah.

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. And then culture is the next section in my strategic plan. And culture has eight bullets unto itself. Enable fitness. Enable new and innovative ideas to take hold, to be given a chance, et cetera. So there’s eight things in my cultural section. Then I have focus areas as the third section. And 2021 specific goals as the fourth section. So it’s a strategic plan. It gives everybody a sense of direction. It gives everybody a sense of where they belong. And it gives us all something to rally around at the end of the day.

Norah Jones:                     Is there anything in the experience of the folks that you throw out of the plane—I mean, that you provide this flight experience for, that has an impact on the participants’ understanding of what the culture of leadership and trust and challenge is all about? Anything connecting their experience, those that do the flying?

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. There’s a couple of different ways to approach that. So, I’ll approach it just mom, dad and the kids. What I affectionately call mom, dad and the kids. They come in—I call this the grumpy dad story. So they check in. So there’s three floors in the building. First floor is check-in, reception, retail. Second floor is the flight chamber, the flight deck. And then third floor is all the admin spaces. The family of four comes and checks in on the first floor. And dad’s grumpy because he just paid a lot of money for something he’s never even heard of that his wife signed everybody up for. And he’s like, “What the hell is this?” Then they get checked in. He starts to see a little bit more of the building on the first floor.

And we have a first-class presentation. Our facility is in great shape and it’s very modern. It’s actually kind of futuristic and very clean and well-maintained. So grumpy dad gets a look around in the building and he’s like, “Wow, this place looks to be pretty squared away.” Then they go up to the second floor of the flight deck. And as soon as they get their, they’ll see the group ahead of them having the flight experience. The kids are going, “Mom, this is awesome.” And then mom looks at dad and goes, “See honey, isn’t this cool?” And he’s not smiling yet, but he starts to kind of shake his head up and down a little bit. And he’s like, “Uh, maybe. I don’t know. We’ll see.” And then they go through the classroom, they go through the training, they come out and they have the flight experience. And whenever there’s a family of four, they always line up. It’ll either be son or daughter first. And then the other one’s son or daughter second, and then mom goes third and dad always goes last.

Norah Jones:                     Interesting.

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah, it is. So that son or daughter gets in there and you can see mom going, “Oh honey, please, please just don’t freak out. Enjoy it, have a good time.” And that son or daughter gets in there and kills it. They crush it. They do great every single time. So son goes, daughter goes, now it’s mom’s turn. Mom always does the best because she’s the most relaxed at this point.

Norah Jones:                     [laughter] That’s encouraging for me, mind you.

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. The kids are a bit up on adrenaline, so they’re pretty energetic. And mom just watched the kids do good. She’s feeling great. And women are more flexible. They kind of get in this natural body-flight position a little quicker. So mom goes in there, does great. She’s smiling from ear to ear throughout her whole flight experience. Which is one minute, by the way, one-minute flight experience. And then dad gets in. Now, all eyes are on dad, and dad knows it. And he’s like, “Well, I better just do a good job here.” So dad gets in and for the first 15 or 20 seconds, dad fights it a little bit. And then he starts to relax. And then he realizes that this is pretty damn cool. And then about 30–45 seconds and the smile hits his face. And so then they repeat, they all go through a second time. And by the time they’re leaving, dad’s a hero, everyone’s happy, they’re smiling. And they’re like, “Dad, thanks so much.” So grumpy dad turns into the hero. It’s pretty cool to see that on a daily basis.

Norah Jones:                     That’s very cool. And now they have a common experience as a family too, and face some fears together.

Bob Pizzini:                        That’s right. That’s exactly right. Now in the professional setting, I incorporate the flight experience into the Elevate Your Leadership, leadership development that I do. Leadership development and team building. But I incorporate the flight experience as kind of a metaphor for getting outside of your comfort zone. So people who have never done this before are now all of a sudden in a group, they just met each other. And not only are they going to do this flight experience, but I also want them to critique each other. I want them to watch each other and notice when somebody did something that was particularly well or they corrected a problem. Say for example, somebody has a little, a slow turn to the left that’s unintentional. And then they make an adjustment with their hand and their body position and that slow turn stops. And they’re nice and stable.

I want everybody else to observe that and say, “When you dropped your right shoulder and raised your left shoulder, that’s when you got stable. That’s when everything was perfect.” So, we observe each other. And ultimately, we’re critiquing each other on something that we’re not terribly familiar with, but leaders need to kind of get out there sometimes and do the best they can with the limited information they have.

Norah Jones:                     Oh, that’s a huge point you just made there. We may not have all the information we need, but leaders take a… would you say an informed by experience?

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah. It’s a risk analysis, ultimately, which is a military term. But they’ve conducted some type of risk analysis and determined I’ve got enough information to make a decision here. It might be the wrong decision, but you know, at some point you have to go. And if leaders are slow in the decision-making process, they’re holding up the rest of the team and that can be tiring and confusing to the rest of the team. Now, I don’t mean move forward full speed ahead recklessly. But what I mean is you have to be comfortable with a certain amount of information that’s not 100%, but it’s enough for you to make a decision to proceed.

Norah Jones:                     Fantastic. Now, Bob, it’s interesting, there’s a storytelling that one does to oneself about one’s own capabilities, one’s owns experiences. And there are stories I’m sure that you and those that you train tell out for others to understand where their history might be coming from, or potentially you have, in your course, tapped on a story that someone has that illustrates their attitudes and experience with leadership. Do you share a story that provides insights into your growth and understanding what leadership means?

Bob Pizzini:                        I do. I share a few. There’s one that’s kind of the main one, if you will. And that’s a story where I made a mistake as somebody who was charged with a lot of responsibility early in my military career. I did not obey a directive from the commanding officer. It was a fairly on the spot, very new directive. And as a result of me not following that guidance, people’s lives were put in danger. And I thought my career was going to be over. But this particular commanding officer, this leader, put me on a path for recovery. He recognized that, although I did act out of self-interest overall, that was uncharacteristic of me. And he decided to give me a get-out-of-jail-free card. You could almost literally call it that.

Norah Jones:                     Yeah, ouch.

Bob Pizzini:                        Yeah, yeah. But I made a big mistake. I owned the mistake. I felt terrible about the decision I made. And after some discussion with my commanding officer, he decided to give me a chance to recover from that. And so great leadership on his part. The summary with that story is you owe your leader 100%. There’s nothing between 100% and zero that’s acceptable. In this case, I said, “We’re going to follow that order starting tomorrow.” There’s no, we’re going to follow that order starting tomorrow. When it’s immediate, it’s immediate. So you owe your leader 100%.

The second thing is, as a leader, you have got to require 100% from your team. If you accept less, that’s what you’re going to get time and time again. And third, and most important, as in this case, if people own their mistakes, because they will come up short, they will disappoint from time to time, but if they own it, and if they’re bought into the organization and the mission, put them on a path for recovery. If they’re good people, if they act more with heart than with ego, put them on a path for recovery.

Norah Jones:                     Now, Bob, you just did a beautiful articulate discussion of how the culture of leadership and being together and the language that is used in leadership makes all the difference in the world. This is great. And having taken your course, I know that I could listen for another several days to what it is that you have to share with great joy. [laughter] And did in fact do it. But at this particular point, what I’d really appreciate your doing is imagining now the folks that are listening to this podcast and just one last opportunity for you to invite them, warn them, engage them, share with them. What would you want to leave?

Bob Pizzini:                        Sure. First, I guess I will just do a straight up endorsement or advertisement, if you will. I would ask them to visit RobertPizzini.com. That’s Robert P-I-Z-Z-I-N-I.com. Where you can learn more about the leadership development and team-training leadership development, and team development, team training that I do. I would also like you to be aware, like the dear listeners to be aware of Elevate Your Leadership, which is my offering, once again, for leadership development and team training. And know that my approach is unique and different, it’s not textbook. There is no textbook. Or there are many textbooks depending on how you look at it. And leadership is an ever-present thing. If you are responsible for anybody other than yourself, you are in a leadership position. And getting back to those 25-year-olds. Most companies and corporations do not prepare people early enough to be in a leadership position. So visit RobertPizzini.com, or visit iFLY Virginia Beach, either on the web or better yet in person. And I’d love to meet everybody. I’d love to meet your listeners and show them exactly who we are and what we do.

Norah Jones:                     Thank you. And I certainly do encourage the listeners to check out Bob’s sites, check out the course. I can highly recommend that course, Bob. I learned so much from it. But more than learning, although learning is certainly of high value, I appreciated being with you as a leader that brought… You speak about being unconventional, and it’s not only unconventional in your approach, but I experienced you as a man of compassion, humility, focus, and articulation. And that’s a rare combination, and it was great to learn much, much more about leadership directly from you because of the character that you bring. So, thanks for all that you’re doing.

Bob Pizzini:                        Well, I appreciate that tremendously. Those were four pretty great words there. Thank you. We had a great group. Your course, the people in your cohort, if you will, it was a great group. And, like I say, I take away more from those guided discussions than I deliver. At least that’s the way I feel about it.

Norah Jones:                     Well, we can have a wrestling match over that, but the fact is that it was great. And I appreciate so much your being my guest here today on this podcast.

Bob Pizzini:                        Thank you, Norah. It’s been an awesome discussion.

Norah Jones:                     Take care.

Bob Pizzini:                        Okay. We’ll see ya.

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