“It’s all going to start with you. Turn that camera to yourself. Everyone loves to take a selfie, but think about what that actually means. Think about your emotions, your motivations. This is time for self-examination, self-consciousness, self-awareness, because once you can grab hold of that, everything else will radiate out into those bigger connections that we can make with the rest of the world.”
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“We’re all in this together, and that’s very powerful.”
Such a simple, profound quote from Carmen, so full of humanity and connection.
And also this quote: “I’m so lucky! I get to go to school every day!”
Carmen Scoggins (bio) brings articulate, energized–and energizing!–words and actions to her life (I cannot just say work) in world language education and training. The high level of quality at which she does this for students and colleagues makes her an award winner across the board: in classroom instruction, application of technology in world language education, and educational leadership. But Carmen also brings to her life, work, and this podcast exactly what all good world language lovers, educators, and career-users do. She brings deep respect for others, an urgency to open the eyes of others to our common humanity, the excitement and wonder of experiencing, even if just for a moment, the sounds and images found in the minds and mouths of speakers of other languages… the perspectives, practices, and values of humanity around the world, and right around the corner.
World languages invite–compel, really–us to reflect and be introspective, to contemplate these key questions of our lives, of the lives of all humanity: Where do I fit in? How do I make it in the world? What can I contribute? What is my role in life?
World language lovers and educators say that we empower our reflection, provide content and experiences worthy of introspection, and discover and act on what we we discover most powerfully and most humanely when we know and learn additional languages. We do it when we include in our lives and classrooms and workplaces those from cultures beyond our own, and explore, study, place ourselves into, and take risks to go outside our comfort zones.
What do you reflect on? Where do you fit in? What impact do you make on the world? How does your personal experience with language and culture–your own, and others’–inform your experiences and your reflection? What role might learning or experiencing different languages and cultures bring to your life, work, and sense of purpose in the world?
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Norah Jones: It’s my great pleasure today to welcome Carmen Scoggins as my guest on the podcast. Hi, Carmen.
Carmen Scoggins: Good morning. How are you today?
Norah Jones: I am doing well. I always am so delighted every time I hear your voice, and the fact that you have said yes to a conversation with me today brings me joy on top of a pretty day. So welcome.
Carmen Scoggins: Well, thank you so much. This is certainly one of my highest honors, so I am so happy to be here.
Norah Jones: Well, it’s an honor for us to be able to hear you bring all sorts of ideas. Because one of the things, Carmen, that when folks take a look at my website, they’ll be able to take a look at your biography, and they’ll see what an award-winning educator you are. I mean, it is tremendously impressive to be awarded-
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you.
Norah Jones: … the leadership award for excellent language instruction using technology. And of course, especially the leadership, the leadership of the various organizations that brings such power-
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you.
Norah Jones: … in the world language and culture education. Thank you.
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you, I’ve been very blessed.
Norah Jones: And why do you think that’s so? What is it about your leadership and your passion that makes you do this?
Carmen Scoggins: Well, I guess it all started when I was in high school, I did a lot of … I was the sophomore class president. Junior class president. And so I cultivated that leadership hunger I think at a very young age. And then I was awarded a North Carolina Teaching Fellows scholarship, and I attended Appalachian State University, and it’s all about building future teacher leaders. And I did my first national presentation when I was 19 years old at the National Honors Conference in Chicago. And I was like, “Wow, I didn’t realize how impactful that was going to be.” And then once I started teaching, I attended my first state conference and I was like, “I bet I could present.”
And so I presented the next year I got best of the state presentation, and I was like 23 years old. So then that just led into being on boards and serving in leadership roles. So it all just kind of came from something I guess I had in me all along that I just didn’t realize how it was going to impact my whole future of education and just love of serving others and giving back to the profession.
Norah Jones: There are so many wonderful pathways to go down with this, because you have shared with me something that are very important that you want to share is the power of reflection and introspection as well as connection. So when I turn to you again and say, “What is it that brought that clarity?” Think about what it is that you were reflecting on when you look back at the breakthroughs in your early life that way?
Carmen Scoggins: Right. Yeah, and again, I think at such a young age I probably wasn’t in a position, or I probably was reflecting and being introspective, but I didn’t realize that’s what was happening. It’s taken me a lot of my adult life to realize the power that can come from just taking a minute and saying, “Hmm, let me think of how this has impacted me and others and where I fit into all this and what I can do to keep things going to make things better, to make really literally to say a cliche, the world a better place.” That’s what I try to do in the classroom every day and certainly in all the leadership roles that I’ve had. But it has come through me taking a minute and thinking about how I fit into everything.
Norah Jones: Let’s take a look at both of those populations that come from what you just said. You’re in the classroom and you’re helping young people to develop some of these skillsets of introspection and leadership reflection. Let’s start with those wonderful young people and the fact that you’re awarded for doing that well, and then we’ll head into some of the grownups. How about that?
Carmen Scoggins: Okay, that sounds great, I love it. Yeah, so I guess I see getting to go to school every day as a blessing. I think, everyone says, “Oh, I have to go to work today.” I’ve never really said that in my life. I just say, “I get to go to school today.” And I know that sounds a little silly, but I’ve been to school my whole life. So this is just, being a teacher has just been an extension of me being a learner, and of course I’m still a learner today. So I go to school every day and I’m on spring break right now. But when we come back, all of my students are going to be in the building at the same time. So I’m very excited about that of course. It’s the first time in a year that we’ve all been back together at once.
Norah Jones: Wow, great.
Carmen Scoggins: So we’ve been split up, but now everyone will be together. So that’ll be a nice way to end the school year. And I take what I do every day very seriously, because I realize that I have a platform I guess you would say, an opportunity to not just share the language I love, of course, which is Spanish, with my students. But I get to talk to them about life stuff, because you can do anything through the language. And so just being able to say, “Hey, there are other people out there in the world who are just like you,” is a huge thing. We live in a very small microcosm in the mountains of North Carolina. And some of my kids have never traveled, they’ve not been to a big city. And so I just have this amazing opportunity to share my limited experiences, but also just the things that are out there and opportunities.
So I do try to talk to them about leadership. I involve them every time I am going to a conference, every time I have a board meeting, and they’re like, “You do all that stuff?” And I’m like, “Yes, and here’s why.” And then I have some kids who go to competitions for DECA or FFA and they always come to me and say, “Would you listen to my presentation?” So I can see that it’s catching on, that they appreciate what I do. Because I do try to involve them in the process.
Norah Jones: That’s wonderful. And the thing is, leadership within the classroom extends out. You’re in the midst of discussing some of the aspects that you provide to students, but to give them a vision of the fact that the leadership can also be in the world.
Carmen Scoggins: Right.
Norah Jones: Maybe local or in the world. Does that work then? I mean, I too come from a rural area, giving that vision to students takes a little extra push.
Carmen Scoggins: It does. And I think one way that I know it’s working, it’s like that ripple effect. You drop a couple of pebbles in and you just really don’t know how far your impact is going to extend, until a former student reaches out to you and says, “Hey, I’m in Spain right now. Or I’m in Germany right now, or I’m wherever in the world.” And they want to tell me about it. It’s like, I literally just had a kid find me on Instagram and say, “You said I was going to do this one day, but I never thought I would.” And he’s in Mexico right now. And it’s those kinds of things. You just never know how much, like I said, impact you’re going to have on students until they tell you. And most of mine, a lot of them do want to come back and tell me, it’s like they’re so proud, they have to share it with me, which is an honor for me.
Norah Jones: As well they should be proud of the work that they do. Now, extrapolate, go over to adults. How do you help adults to do that kind of reflection, understanding and growing?
Carmen Scoggins: Well, I am very lucky I serve as my department chair in my school. It’s a very small department, there are five of us. And I also sit on a leadership team for professional learning teams. And so in those roles, I’d hate to say I have a lot of power, but I really try to use my power for good. And I bring things to our groups that, because I’m so connected in the country a little bit more internationally now and just throughout the state, I really try to bring latest trends, best practices, and make them think critically about what we do in the classroom every day. And that’s what I try to do when I’m presenting also. I always talk about building student relationships, that’s first and foremost. I think people can see in my own presentations that I have tried to reflect a lot. I always try to learn something from myself when I present, if that makes sense?
Norah Jones: Yes.
Carmen Scoggins: Yeah, because giving and giving and giving, I think, gosh. But doing research and staying fresh and trying to find a new way to say, “Hey, this is what I do in the classroom every day,” has kept me very reflective I think. So I hope that the adults around me see that as I share my ideas with them.
Norah Jones: When you talk about the role of reflection and introspection then, how do you make sure that people understand that that is what is happening and that you feel that there’s value in using introspection and reflection?
Carmen Scoggins: It’s a good question. Sometimes I ask whoever’s listening some questions. Like one of the sessions I recently did everyone with the whole crisis and the pandemic and everything, a lot of people chose to see those that whole time as a really negative time. Yes, there were things we missed and we were sad. We couldn’t see people, we couldn’t go out to restaurants, poor us. So I really tried to consider what was happening in my own life and take some time just to look inwardly and say, “The pandemic validated these practices in my classroom. Or it enlightened my teaching in this way. Or it made me think differently about teaching in this way. And not just about teaching, but in the way I approach everything.”
Again, I think we’ve all had a little extra time to ourselves. And so I really try to look inwardly a little bit more. I see this as a kind of a three-tiered thing. Like the connections we make, if you think of three circles would be on the outer edge of the farthest circle away from you, because it’s the most important thing, we have to reach out to people. We are connected. We’re connected to our students. We’re connected to our friends, our communities, the next circle in is the reflection piece. You know, John Dewey says, “That we don’t learn from experience, we learn from reflecting on experience.” And so we begin to look in the mirror and really see ourselves. And then that final inner circle is once the lens is really on you, like you’re taking a selfie, there’s the introspective piece where you say, “How am I reacting to situations? How can I do this better, and how do I fit in and again, try to make things better overall for everyone involved?”
Norah Jones: You know, Carmen, you have done such a beautiful job there giving us those three tiers, thank you.
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you.
Norah Jones: And you’ve applied it to the way that you work, even just in creating about the language education and about the work that you do. Seems to me that that’s especially relevant to the way that our society needs leadership that will help to look at those three tiers in general and how language and cultural leaders like yourself can help to increase shall we say the level of compassion, integration, global understanding? Can you provide some reflections on what I just said?
Carmen Scoggins: I think so. I recently at the Spring SCOLT Conference, I had the honor and privilege of doing a leadership workshop with Dr. Bobby Hobgood, and our focus was on the theme of inclusion. And I have always thought of myself that I have an inclusive classroom. But I again, try to really grow from that experience of putting this workshop together with him, because it made me pause again and really think about what do I do in the classroom that of course extends outside the classroom walls? But someone mentioned the African concept of Ubuntu and I have been obsessed with that ever since. If you know the saying Ubuntu is, “I am only because we are.” I think that’s beautiful, because it reminds us that we fit into a bigger picture. I am kind of a big picture person. I use backward design for that very reason in my classroom when I plan, because I want my students to see where they’re going before we start the journey together.
And I think if we approach life in that way, if we backward design life, I think that it can be so powerful if we can see what our end goal is, and then work towards that goal. To me that’s the whole concept of, I am because of everyone around me, because of who we are. And I just love that concept. I just ordered a sign that, so from my office, because I want to constantly have a reminder that I am part of something bigger and that I have a responsibility to give back to that bigger community.
Norah Jones: Very beautifully said.
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you.
Norah Jones: Now let’s go to that backwards design that you’ve brought up several times, including backwards design and life. Again, we’re talking about the language and culture connection and insight that you bring. How do we help folks to, and I’m including adults here, adults that are not in your classroom, that can help them to use reflection and introspection and the understanding of the role of language and culture in their own identity, and that of others, to bring about a vision and that Ubuntu?
Carmen Scoggins: Yes, well goodness, I guess just again, the more opportunities I have to share things that I love with other people, I just hope that will come through, that I think a lot of teachers see me as, Carmen presents all the time and she’s just got everything going on so well in her classroom. And that’s not the case all the time. I am constantly trying to stay fresh in what I do. I try not to get just too complacent with the way I do things or have done things in the past. Because I know there’s always something for me to learn from someone else. And again, I really think that the deeper I go with my own just outreach to others and learning from others, it brings me a lot of confidence in the classroom, but I also know that I’m learning from myself. I’m learning from others. I’m learning from my students every day, just how to do things better.
So again, I’m not sure I got to your question, but again, just the whole tying everything together and trying to keep it real in every aspect of my life. It all for me stems from the classroom, because it’s what I do every day and it’s what I’m passionate about. But again, trying to see being more mindful. I don’t practice meditation, I don’t do yoga, and I probably should. I do try to be mindful though. Let’s say I have a faculty meeting and it’s making you get home really late and you get frustrated. I try, instead of seeing things in that way, I try to see it in a good way, like, maybe because I had to stay at school extra long, I got to drive home with the sun setting in front of me.
And I try to see really the power in that, that if I had left school earlier I wouldn’t have been in that moment. I wouldn’t have seen that beautiful sunset. So I don’t realize I do that as much as I do, but I do it constantly. When I’m out of the store, I think, “If I had come a little later or a little earlier, I wouldn’t have met this person.” And or just again, to be mindful of everything around you all the time and that people are out there, they might just need you to listen. They might need a kind hello, anything like that just is a reminder of that we are again all in this together, and that’s very powerful.
Norah Jones: It certainly is, thank you very much, that was beautifully expressed.
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you.
Norah Jones: And one of the questions that you shared with me a while back was, how does our view of ourselves influence how we make connections? And you just described a view of your role and yourself in a beautiful expression of that.
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you.
Norah Jones: How do you help to bring those that may not have experienced that early, well, many people don’t, that early sense of, “Oh, I’ve got something I can express here that turned out pretty well. I have growing of confidence,” whether it’s in the direction of young people in the classroom, or in the direction of your professional colleagues or those in your community or all of them, if you wish. How do you help the folks to be reflective about their own view of themselves and the impact that has on making connections?
Carmen Scoggins: Right. Well, I think again, when I get to share things with others, I think some people think things come really easily for me, and they don’t. I have a lot of insecurities just like everyone else, but the fact that I’m willing to take risks, I especially think that’s important for my young language learners. I’m asking them to take risks with the language in the classroom every day, but they also see me taking risks. They see me presenting to hundreds of people, and they’re like, “Don’t you get nervous?” And I’m like, “Maybe, but not really.” Just because this conversation with you, that’s all it is. It’s a conversation. And so I never am at a loss for words really. And if it’s something that I feel strongly about, then I’m ready to share that with others. And I’m hoping that through that teachers can begin to see themselves.
Through that hopefully it’s a little bit empowering to them that I often say, “Give back. You think you might not have something important to say, but everyone does.” And there’s also a great TED Talk by Celeste Headlee that she mentions, “We don’t listen well, we’re not good listeners.” And all we need to do is just sit back for a minute. As language teachers we want to communicate, but that huge piece of interpersonal is also interpretive. And if we’re not listening well, then we don’t know how to reciprocate what we need to say back to a person. So I think there’s a lot of power in just keeping your mouth shut occasionally and listening to people and hearing their stories, because everyone has something they want to share.
Norah Jones: Yeah, beautiful. Boy is that right, huh? Listening is the key. Okay, so turn that wonderful mind of yours out to the society, the society in the United States where you live, societies around the world, how though the insights that you have, the experiences you have, that role of listening, backwards design, kind of role should that be playing in our society right now?
Carmen Scoggins: Well, as you know, we are living in interesting times and it makes me sad sometimes, because there’s just so much going on in the world. And I think that we just have to remember again that we are all interconnected. It’s the interculturality piece. Maya Angelou says, “We are more alike than we are unalike.” And I again try to live by that, because I try to show that to my little classroom in the mountains of North Carolina that are literally isolated by this geographic barrier, “That there are people out there just like you going through things just like you, and where is our role in all this?” And I really think that just bringing as many experiences as can to my students now, I have limited experience from, some people have traveled so extensively, but I have been fortunate to see and live in other countries.
And I think that’s one of the most powerful things we can do is spend some time in another country, because then you really get to look back at your own country and see how others view it, if you will. And we know we have a lot of growth we can make in this country where it’s a strong nation, but we’re missing that empathy piece in that, wow, we belong together and we have to protect everything that we have. And we have to recognize that we all live in this country and that we should welcome people who want to be here, because it’s so important, everyone wants to feel safe, and everyone wants to have opportunities. And again, just keeping in mind that we just need to be more sensitive to others and listen and make those connections that are strong so that everyone feels valued.
I did learn a lot from that inclusive workshop I’ll tell you, because you take your own camera lens and you point it at yourself and you say, “How do I feel about this? And what do I need to think differently about, or what am I doing well, and how can I share that with others?”
Norah Jones: What do you think that leaders, political leaders, I guess I’m really going to hear now.
Carmen Scoggins: Yeah.
Norah Jones: How best can they go about understanding what you just said about inclusiveness, what you just said about the approach to people?
Carmen Scoggins: Well, just by making good choices, and that’s hard, because I think most politicians go into politics with really good intentions. And then I don’t know what happens that sometimes they lose sight of that. So I would like to think that if they keep in mind that they are part of the Ubuntu that they are because we are. And if they keep the we in mind and not so much the I, I think that maybe that would make our nation stronger.
Norah Jones: Keep the we in mind, not just the I. There you go. Language education, Carmen, when you have been engaged here in these, what 27th year you are in?
Carmen Scoggins: Yes, that’s right.
Norah Jones: Over the 27 years and when you also consider the upcoming years, as you see them, what is the role of language education? Where is it headed? Where should it be headed if it’s not headed in the right direction or tweak?
Carmen Scoggins: Right. Well, I guess again, one of the things that I think our country doesn’t do well is to foster that second or third language from an early age. It happens so easily and naturally in other countries. And it’s just not something we prioritize in this country. So I think that, obviously we need to get language back in elementary schools, we’ve got lots of awesome dual immersion programs, or just immersion programs in the country. We need more of those. We need, again I think being bilingual, bi-literate breaks down all of those barriers that so many people still have inside them, whether they want to admit it or not. But the more you know about other cultures and other languages, the more receptive you are to others in general and their philosophies and their beliefs. That’s the whole interculturality piece, the products, practices, and perspectives, not everyone’s going to think like you do, and that’s okay.
But understanding how to react to that is I think one of the strongest things. So it all starts with language and it all starts with language at an early age. But even if we keep it at the middle school or high school level, just the idea that this has got to be a priority for us, because that’s where a lot of the growth and the healing can come from, just those language classes. If you walk down the language hall at my school, you hear all kinds of emotions happening at one time. And that’s what I love about being able to teach a world language is that I can teach anything, I can share, we can laugh together, we can cry together, and experience life things together just through the language. And so I definitely think we’re starting to do a better job in this country. We have the seal of bi-literacy and some students are really grasping on to what they can to become more global citizens of the world, but we still have a lot of work to do.
Norah Jones: Carmen, I always credited, because of my own background, growing up in an urban area, that coming here to the rural area that folks were sometimes not interested in having language education early or often, because of the sense of a bit of threat-
Carmen Scoggins: Right, that’s what I was going to say.
Norah Jones: And it has struck me now years down the pike that people that are in urban areas that have strong sense of community may feel that same sense of threat, but whether it’s rural, urban, anything in between, how do you, Carmen, address the idea that one can be confident in the midst of learning language and offering language being in the midst of language?
Carmen Scoggins: Right. Well again, I think you’re spot on. I think it’s the fear of the unknown. No one likes to feel like they don’t have a good grasp of things. And I think when we hear other languages or see people who look a little differently than we do it’s not necessarily, it could be a threat, but it’s also just, “Hey, this is different.” And so there is fear there. So again, one of the ways I try to do that is to tell my story of times I’ve traveled and situations I’ve been in and interactions I’ve had with other people and how they helped me and how I grew from them and how there wasn’t anything to fear, and there was no threat, and how much I learned from those other people. And if I hadn’t been open-minded to that, I wouldn’t have had those awesome experiences, which caused me to reflect and think about where I am in the world.
So again, just sharing as many stories with students and people as possible. You know, my family hasn’t had the opportunities that I’ve had to travel necessarily. And so just by being, even being able to share that with them I think that’s made a huge difference in their appreciation of who I have become. They didn’t have that travel bug like I did, but I’ve been able to share those stories with them. And my mom was like, oh my goodness, weren’t you scared? No, because this was how I felt. I could smell the market. I could hear, I could talk to people, I could understand. And that, man that gives you a lot of power and it gives you a lot of confidence. And so study abroad, I highly recommend to students, get out of your comfort zone and put yourself in situations that yes, might be frightening at first, but then you’ll realize how much you can learn from the experience.
Norah Jones: Thank you, Carmen. When you take a look at encouraging people to take those risks, what kinds of tools or what kinds of places that can help to encourage those that don’t have, or don’t yet know that they have the skillset of putting up with risk and living through it. That’s a toughie for many people. Where do they go to get some of that building up that risk muscle?
Carmen Scoggins: I think they go into themselves and try to reflect on all the good stuff they have to offer others. And I never thought of myself as a confident person. And when I lived in Mexico for six months when I was 20 years old, I was terrified a lot of the time. But when I realized that I did have a lot to offer, I love to smile at people. I love to make people feel good about themselves. And I think that began to give me more confidence. And certainly when I returned from that amazing experience, I was like super woman. I had gained, here was this little girl with blonde hair and blue eyes who was living in a country that maybe … I didn’t look like most people there and I didn’t have a firm grasp on the language, that’s why I was there of course, to study and learn. And I was in all kinds of situations that I just completely grew from.
And I did that all by myself, literally. And so I think again, it goes back to go inside yourself and think about the good you have to offer others, because you definitely have something good to share. And hopefully that will begin to build your confidence so that you can become part of the bigger picture.
Norah Jones: You have something positive to share. So many times I think when people think about language and culture and learning it’s like, “I’m supposed to receive, I’m supposed to receive, I’m supposed to receive.” But your emphasis there is on, you already have gifts to give.
Carmen Scoggins: And everyone does. I mean, that’s the thing. You just have to realize what those are. That’s why I do try to see all of my students as individuals, because everyone is different and everyone does have something to contribute. You might think of yourself, “Oh, I’m an introvert or I’m an extrovert.” And it doesn’t matter what kind of vert you are, what matters is what you realize that is inside you, that you do have some control over. You do have control over how you’re going to respond to situations. You do have control over what is good about you that you can share with others. So you just have to go in and figure those things out for yourself.
Norah Jones: And I’m going to bet that in your classroom and in your workshops and in your presentations, that you help people feel safe on the way to discovering their skillset.
Carmen Scoggins: I certainly hope so. I usually try to give whatever, okay, here’s a true confession on your podcast now that’s going to be broadcast everywhere. That I pretty much have the same message every time I speak, I just give it a different analogy. I mean, because there’s some fundamentals every time I present. You’ve got to build connections with your students. You have to have a relationship with them first and foremost. You have to stay fresh in what you’re doing in the classroom. You have to reflect all the time to be a better educator, to be a better human being. And basically that’s my message every single time, splattered with student examples and what I’m doing and differentiation and all those kinds of things and growth mindset. But basically it’s the same message, because that is the foundation of life. I mean, that is what we’re here to do. So I hope that people when they hear me begin to see what I do in the classroom as a way to better what they’re doing in the classroom or just in life in general.
Norah Jones: The true confessions of Carmen Scoggins, you [crosstalk].
Carmen Scoggins: It’s out now, I did it, I did it.
Norah Jones: You did it. Come and hear the latest iteration-
Carmen Scoggins: Oh gosh.
Norah Jones: … at Carmen’s next presentation and workshop. That’s good.
Carmen Scoggins: Awesome.
Norah Jones: That’s brilliant. Carmen, do me a favor here, I want you to visualize, the folks that are listening. You have just given them a beautiful exhortation, just be the best and they can be, and bring that to the world. You’ve got one more opportunity to turn that same message to other words.
Carmen Scoggins: Okay, oh gosh.
Norah Jones: No, I’m just kidding on that last part, but you turn to them and like, “What’s the last thing like, please, please, please. Don’t leave this podcast without hearing me say… “
Carmen Scoggins: Without hearing me say that it’s all going to start with you, okay? And turn that camera to yourself. Everyone loves to take a selfie, but think about what that actually means. Think about your emotions, your motivations. This is time for self-examination, self-consciousness, self-awareness, because once you can grab hold of that, everything else will radiate out into those bigger connections that we can make with the rest of the world.
Norah Jones: I’ve just, I feel energized every time I speak with you, every time I hear you.
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you.
Norah Jones: And on top of that, it’s an invitation that really is life-giving and empowering at a time when people need to hear that energy, need to be given that gift. Thank you so much for doing that.
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you so very much.
Norah Jones: I appreciate your sharing today, and I wish you the very best of success as you continue your leadership. Thank you for it. And thanks for bringing this energy to the world, to your students.
Carmen Scoggins: Well, thank you so much. It’s been my pleasure to be with you, and hopefully someone will hear something that resonates with them today. I appreciate this so much.
Norah Jones: Well, I certainly imagine so. Thank you, Carmen. Take care.
Carmen Scoggins: Thank you. Thank you.