Episode 10: The DNA of Identity: A Conversation with Amanda Seewald

It's About Language, with Norah Jones
It's About Language, with Norah Jones
Episode 10: The DNA of Identity: A Conversation with Amanda Seewald
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“Look at the people around you, and know that the stories that they have will teach you more about yourself. Look for the stories. Listen to other people’s stories, so that you can become more open to the ways that you can attain your own ikigai (reason for being), and to be able to reach out and help others.”

Buckle up for this podcast, friends.

Guest Amanda Seewald brings her depth of experience and reflection to bear in full in this episode, and, as she does so, she challenges each of us over and over to consider the life-changing power of language and culture over a variety of generations, life-settings, and personal and group challenges.

Amanda shares in a variety of ways, often through powerful personal stories, that identity comes from our personal connection to the world, as people see themselves through their language. All of us are born to seek our identity and our connections. Listening to others’ stories and entering into their language can provide us with a powerful pathway into an understanding of ourselves and our heritage; they help to grow and heal our lives.

“Finding one’s voice is an ongoing process. I believe through the experiences we have, and through language and this search for identity which I think everyone goes through every day of their lives, by looking at their present and their past, and figuring out their future – I think that is how we steady our voices and strengthen them.”

Amanda tells so many interesting stories — you’ll enjoy the image of Amanda’s grandmother speaking boisterous Yiddish in her presence (in a time-honored tradition of heritage families) as a way of making sure she didn’t understand. That reminded me of my Croatian grandmother and how she kept me in line; I suspect many of you will be prompted by Amanda’s stories to think of many of your own, both joyful and poignant.

So listen to this episode with Amanda Seewald to understand and be inspired by example after example of how listening to others’ stories through their language and culture leads us to understand our own identity, find our own voice, and make our lives meaningful, compassionate, and strong.

And consider: In what ways have you experienced listening to others’ stories through their language and culture a doorway to understanding your own life purpose and your own voice?


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It’s About Language – Episode 10 – The DNA of Identity: A Conversation with Amanda Seewald

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Episode 10 – The DNA of Identity: A Conversation with Amanda Seewald – Audiogram with Captions

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Transcript

0:00:01.3 Amanda Seewald: I would invite everyone as you reflect each day on the things that you’re doing to continue to look at other people around you and know that the stories that they have will teach you more about yourself. I would invite people to look for the stories and listen to other people’s stories so that you can become more open to the ways that you can attain your own Ikigai and also the ways that you can reach out to help others.

0:00:36.2 Norah Jones: Hi, I’m Norah Jones. Welcome to It’s About Language. This podcast connects language and culture to life, learning and hope. You’ll experience insightful conversations with creative leaders in the fields of education, business, arts and science. My guests shed light on the impact of language and culture on individuals in society as they share their stories and experiences. You’ll be informed and inspired as we explore how language and culture make us human and bring hope in the midst of a challenging world. It’s my great pleasure to welcome Amanda Seewald as my guest today. Hi, Amanda.

0:01:20.7 Amanda Seewald: Hi, Norah. It’s wonderful to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

0:01:22.9 Norah Jones: Well, you’re most welcome and thank you because I’m really very much looking forward to our conversation today. It has to do with our reason for being, which is quite an interesting but very important aspect of taking a look at language and culture. And, Amanda, for many years now, as a matter of fact, you’re on your 10th anniversary of having started your recording for your MARACAS language programs. That you’ve been working to develop globally connected and meaningful language experiences from very early on. That changes things, doesn’t it? When you start young people early to take a look at language and culture.

0:02:11.6 Amanda Seewald: Absolutely. And I think that part of the reason why I feel that it’s so important is because I never had that opportunity when I was younger. And the entire reason that I got into language education was because of my experience after having graduated college and moving to Virginia. My experience seeing the Arlington, Virginia, public schools and the way that the immersion program worked there. And I thought, well, if this is what education can be, then I want to be in education and I want to be in language education to some degree. And so thinking about early learners and the way that language just comes to them and allows it to be a part of who they are right away. And it can be multiple languages. I think to me that is really inspiring. And it’s something that I aspire to even now as an adult to try and achieve. And it’s certainly something that I wanted for my children as well.

0:03:02.0 Norah Jones: When you look at meaningful language programs for little ones, for grownups, everything in between, what brings meaning to a program for the individual?

0:03:16.2 Amanda Seewald: Well, I think it’s interesting because when I first started writing MARACAS, it was really to provide a pathway for my own daughter at the time and then my son to have a peer group with him to learn language. And I wanted it to be an opportunity for them to understand the way how people communicate and how people live. And that was really what was important to me for them, but also the idea of learning in groups. And I think that what makes things meaningful when we’re talking about language learning is a connection to people, real connection to people and a connection to asking questions and solving problems. And I really believe that that’s what’s often missing. And of course, even my own work, I think, has evolved over time to focus even more on global issues, on the way that language is a tool for solving problems and communicating in ways that maybe we absolutely would not be able to do without the ability at the facility to use language in a way that connects beyond simple words.

0:04:23.7 Norah Jones: So this real connections and solving problems, what are some of the pathways to that, Amanda?

0:04:30.1 Amanda Seewald: I think that solving problems with language, I think the first thing that we need to do from an educational standpoint is that I think that for an individual to understand why language is important, you have to understand that all of the things that we’re doing here, let’s say in the United States, here in English, all of the research, all of the discussions, all of the learning that’s taking place, the innovation is happening potentially in English. It could be happening in other languages here in the United States as well. But in other parts of the world, those same types of conversations and innovations and developments are happening. Those discussions are happening in other languages. And I don’t think we’ve done enough in our field to actually let students know that from day one, to let them understand that science and the technology and everything are just directly related to how we communicate.

0:05:23.0 Norah Jones: Now, this is interesting that there is an identity and insight and learning happening in other cultures and in other languages, and you’ve just made the point that we don’t even really express that well to our young people. Talk about identity for just a moment with regard to how we see ourselves and our language and how language and culture education helps us to recognize our own identity, as well as that of others.

0:05:55.1 Amanda Seewald: Well, I think that’s really important, and it’s something that recently I’ve had even more of an opportunity to reflect on. I think that identity, of course, is something that everyone is really considering even more openly now than ever before. And it’s something I appreciate so much in our society now. But from the perspective of language and culture, identity is a part of your reason for being, identity is a very essential personal connection to the world. And I think that language is a needed pathway for that, it is a needed reflection of one’s identity. Now the challenge with that for someone like me is that I grew up in a monolingual household. I grew up without other languages with the exception of maybe my grandmother, and my great grandmother on one side of the family who every so often had some words that I couldn’t quite understand in Yiddish.

0:06:53.5 Amanda Seewald: But I found myself always craving connections to other languages and other cultures, and really wanting to be a part of them. And I think that people in general can see themselves through their language, and often for those of us who grew up in a monolingual household, or here in the United States where so many people do not grow up with a second language and so many people do. I think that what happens is that either we push it aside, which is very unfortunate, and more than unfortunate, it’s disturbing, or we try to find a way to connect to it, or the third possibility is that people just don’t see that as a part of their vision of their identity. And so what happens is with people who grow up bilingual in the United States for too many years, that identity has been squashed by our culture in our society and our educational system in some cases. And whereas people who haven’t grown up with the language haven’t been informed enough and involved enough in culture language from early time to see that as a part of someone’s identity and to recognize how essential it is.

0:08:08.4 Norah Jones Why would it be squashed?

0:08:12.8 Amanda Seewald: Well, you know this is this is part of what I think is the great challenge of the United States of America right now, and for the past, is because in order to fit in, in order to be a part of our country for so long, I think this goes back many, many years, you had to find a way to assimilate, and often that assimilation required a loss of language. I saw it in my husband’s family and his mother’s family, they’re Chinese, and they lost their language over the years. And I see it in students of mine whose heritage language is spoken at home but maybe they are not developing literacy in it. And we see it in the way that, historically some of our educational systems, move students towards English and didn’t support their heritage languages. And for me personally, I see it as a void in my life because the languages of my ancestors, though they still exist in the world, they were never connected to me because I had no pathway to find them, or to find out about them, because of the Holocaust.

0:09:22.3 Norah Jones: You used the verb crave earlier, craving for understanding. Where does that come from?

0:09:34.7 Amanda Seewald: That’s something I continue to reflect on. People have asked me, “What is it about language that always was drawing you in from the time you were younger?” And I think that, for me, it was more than language, it was culture, it was people, it was this connection to something that I could feel. Connection to something that I could be a part of and feel connected to. Not because my family didn’t have connections and traditions that I honor and love, but also because I felt like those connections and traditions were missing a piece, potentially and this is something that honestly, in thinking about it recently, I listened to an audio book that actually inspired me to think about this more. It was a juxtaposition of two different women and their lives, one in the past and one presently, and the way that the history of their families were completely connected to the loss of language, culture, and identity.

0:10:40.6 Norah Jones: Interesting. And you referred to the fact that there’s kind of this wall in your own personal history to break through to understand the linguistic and cultural background, that wall being the Holocaust itself. How have you faced that? What types of actions have you taken and why?

0:11:04.5 Amanda Seewals: Well, it’s something that I don’t think it was ever in my face quite the same way as it would be if you grew up with someone who was a Holocaust survivor in your family. I didn’t have that. What I had was just my ancestors, my great-grandparents, my great-great-grandparents came here and started a new life. But where they came from and how they got here has always been a mystery to me, and was never something that was discussed in my family, not that it was hidden, but it was just no one really knew exactly other than that there was that wall as you described it. And, of course, you grow up learning about these things in school and in religious school and everything. But for me, what I realized over time, and really, the time I realized it most was when my daughter was in middle school. My daughter was in a Catholic middle school. She was the only Jewish kid in the Catholic middle school.

0:12:00.4 Amanda Seewald: And she was doing very well there and then they had a heritage project which I’m sure lots of people are familiar with, when you do a heritage project you’re reporting on the place you came from, you get to make foods from where your family came from, and my daughter had lots of options because as I mentioned, my husband’s half-Chinese, half-German-Irish. My family is Eastern-European. And I say that because there are multiple countries, some of which have changed hands over time so we talk about Belarus, we talk about Poland, we talk about Russia, Germany, Romania. And so, my daughter decided that because she had done so much about her Chinese heritage, she wanted to do something about my side of the family. And in doing that and researching the background of my family, she found out about my family being from Pinsk. And in that discovery, she found out about one of the worst tragedies during the Holocaust, of multiple thousands and thousands of people in a village being killed and that happened to be where my grandfather’s family was from.

0:13:07.6 Amanda Seewald: And most of his family… My grandfather was born here and his father was the one who came over here. So these were things that I wasn’t even quite aware of but my daughter has… My daughter is a journalist at heart, and even in middle school, she did a lot of research and found out incredible things but there she was standing at her heritage fair, where there were children doing Irish dancing and children who had Italian heritage, children who had Chinese heritage, and showing all the wonderful things that are beautiful in all of those cultures, and my daughter stood there with a very stark and upsetting display. Now of course she had some good latkes to go with it because I wasn’t going to let her go without some good food. But the bottom line is, it was a very strong reminder to me about why I may have taken the pathway that I’ve taken, and maybe it wasn’t as much of a choice as a need, and that’s where the word crave comes from.

0:14:10.3 Norah Jones: As much of a choice as a need. There’s an interesting question that you shared with me one time, it was, how does immersion in languages and cultures removed from our family histories affect our connection to our own stories? How does it, Amanda?

0:14:29.5 Amanda Seewald: Well, I think that’s part of the question that I’m on a journey to figure out and I feel like that’s what happened to me when I was younger. I was drawn to these ideas, I was needing these connections and while the traditions of my family are beautiful and I love every one of them, I found that the immersion in a language, first Spanish, then French and then for me Japanese, really helped me feel like I was part of something that I could reach out and touch that I could feel, I could be a part of a family, I felt like I was member of something that really made me feel a little bit more whole. It helped me identify more who I am as a person and what my interests are. And I say that not to say that I am anyone but myself, being in the culture of Spain and in other Hispanic cultures and being in the culture of French cultures, and of course in Japan, and especially in Japan, I still felt like I am who I am and I don’t try to be someone I’m not, but what I do feel is that the immersion in the language and the culture, because it was so disconnected from what I knew growing up, was absolutely a reminder to me of how important language and culture are to our every step we take in life every day.

0:16:02.3 Norah Jones: Amanda, you said something right there that strikes me that reassures a lot of folks. In my history I’ve come across wonderful loving parents and guardians who were kind of afraid of having their children take language and learn about cultures because they felt that they might lose their identity. But what you have just expressed is that learning about the other cultures and learning about the other languages, you actually found more of your identity with that. Am I hearing that correctly?

0:16:37.0 Amanda Seewald: Absolutely. I feel that the word perspective for me is everything, everything about who I am, it’s a non-stop need to understand the way others view the world. And if I can at least see the world through other people’s eyes and through other people’s languages, cultures, customs, and really their daily interaction, the very basic foundation of the way that we interact, then I can better understand who I am, and certainly not lose myself, just the opposite. And I can say that very comfortably right now in the middle of this pandemic because, though this is going to sound just trite in many ways I’m sure, I feel the need to say it. This past summer I was supposed to have visited my host family in Japan, which is a long story, but basically I’ve been very close to the family that I lived with when I studied abroad through the National Security Education Program in 1994. I’m still extremely close to them. That family is my family, my host mother is like a grandmother to my children, and every three or four years, we work really hard to be able to go and visit them.

0:17:48.5 Amanda Seewald: And this was the summer that we were supposed to visit them. And my host mother is getting older and the kids are growing up and this was an opportunity to be able to spend time with them again was crucial to me. And I think I didn’t realize quite how much it would impact me to not be able to go, to physically not be able to go because of the situation in the world. And of course, again, I am blessed and graced with the health and the ability to go there. And so I understand that, not in comparison to what the world is going through right now, but for me, what I did realize, and it took me months afterwards to realize this, that not being able to be with my family in Japan, this past summer did something to my own psyche, something to my own feeling about where I am and who I am. I realized that the Japanese culture and the Japanese people and more specifically my Japanese family, and my connection to the Japanese language was so strong and so much a part of me after over 20-25 years that not being able to connect to it because it’s not something I can do as easily here in the United States really hurt me.

0:19:09.0 Amanda Seewald: And I think that that’s a reminder to me of the journeys that refugees that immigrants face every day in all different parts of the world. And I recognize that my experience is one of privilege and one that is that is different, but it certainly lends me the idea of perspective. It certainly makes me think about the things that I should be doing in our world to make a difference and I think that that right there, those ideas are the things that our children must understand from an early age, to circle back to the idea of why language and culture and immersion in languages and cultures that are not connected to our own family histories are so essential. And as much as that is essential that we also think about how essential it is for children to know their own family histories. So I just think that these are these are things that I feel like I’m continuously learning about myself through the experiences and the worlds of understanding that I’ve had as a result of language and culture.

0:20:19.3 Norah Jones: Well again, I come back to what you have said here again powerfully and that is learning other languages and learning other cultures brings a powerful ability to address the world’s needs but also grows one’s own identity. Now, let me ask you one of the concepts that you learned and seem to honor tremendously in Japan was, and forgive me if I am mispronouncing it, Ikigai. Can you talk about Ikigai and relationship to what it is that you have done, and who you are, and what you would share with others about who they can be.

0:21:05.0 Amanda Seewald: Sure, Ikigai is a word, it’s a concept, it’s a Japanese term for one’s reason for being. And it’s the intersection of the things that you love, the things that you’re passionate about, the things that you’re good at, your profession, all of those pieces coming together in a beautiful, large Venn diagram that, if you kind of want to visualize it, that helps you see your pathway and helps you understand better where to kind of place yourself in the world and what you can and should be doing. And I talk to teachers about the term Ikigai all the time because I think education is a perfect example of where it’s certainly not about the money, right? It’s one of those things, it’s about your passion, it’s about your connection to people, it’s about your ability to talk to someone, to ask questions, to help someone see things. And that’s where I think our passion really is. And I think those people in the world who don’t pay attention to those forces that pull on them in that way, often find themselves feeling like they’ve missed out on something. And for me, as I’ve been reflecting on this, especially recently, I think it’s also about chasing and chasing the idea of language and culture, not just the idea, but chasing the experiences of people, really.

0:22:33.8 Amanda Seewald: And understanding as much as I possibly can and taking it in. And I think that really what it’s done for me is helped me see that it’s a part of collecting the ideas from my past and my present to help me figure out what my next step is in the world.

0:22:52.8 Norah Jones: Fascinating. And that’s all part of our linguistic and cultural identity. One of the things that you have shared with folks on my website, Amanda, along with your biography and other good information, is a link to a book, The Things We Cannot Say. And one of the reviewers of that book wrote a phrase that I would love for you to expound on a little bit here.

0:23:25.3 Amanda Seewald: Sure.

0:23:26.3 Norah Jones: “It can take a lifetime to find our voice before we learn to trust it.” How has that been true or how have you found that experienced or modified in your life?

0:23:44.0 Amanda Seewald: Well, first of all, I had not seen that review and so I appreciate you sharing that with me because it explains a lot more about my connection to that book. It’s a work of fiction, and it is, as I mentioned earlier, two women’s stories and so I just want to say this about that idea of finding one’s voice. It’s an ongoing process. I believe that through the experiences we have and through language and through this search for identity, which I think everyone goes through every day of their lives by looking at their present and their past and figuring out their future. I think that that’s how we steady our voices and that’s how we strengthen them. And that for me is really, really what that story helped me do, to be honest.

0:24:41.7 Amanda Seewald: And as I’ve gone through, I’ve been in my field for over 20 years now. I’ve looked at it through different lenses. I’ve tried different things. I’ve never colored in the lines. And in many ways that puts me at odds with people, but that also allows me the ability to spread my wings differently, to be true to the creative voices that I feel are essential for us to be able to find our personal goals and our, and really be true to our identities.

0:25:16.1 Norah Jones: Powerful. And I’m relating well to what you’re saying because of my own father’s immigrant background and some of these losses and some of these regains and trusting that. Amanda, what are some language insights that you got from some of your favorite languages? It looks like maybe we might have Japanese on that one, but is there something that you know that you would not be the Amanda that you are without that particular Japanese linguistic or cultural extra identity that you’ve got?

0:25:52.8 Amanda Seewald: Oh, I feel as though I know it’s very funny Norah. I feel as though and you know you constantly as someone and I want to just say this clearly as someone who grew up without other languages, but learning other languages, I felt that every time I learned one, it was a new part of me, but I also recognize that I don’t come from those cultures. I always dreamt of being a part of these beautiful cultures and that’s really an important distinction, I think, for a person who learns language, as opposed to coming from language. And as I say that I also stop myself and I’m sorry I just want to say this very clearly. I stopped myself to say that my grandmother spoke Yiddish all the time. I didn’t understand much of a word of it but my goodness did I love that language. Talk about expression and talk about drama. But there was a disconnect, right? Because I never had the opportunity to really learn it. My grandmother spoke it kind of as a way to not let me understand what she was saying. In the same way that Pig Latin is used by people sometimes to make sure that you can say something that people won’t understand.

0:27:05.6 Amanda Seewald: But I think that I really believe that language, for… Language is a connection. Going to Japan and meeting a host family who broke every stereotype that I had ever heard of in my life. A very feminist mother and a host father who liked to cook and clean and tell his wife openly how much he loved her. These were things that for me showed me language in a light that changes people’s lives.

0:27:37.1 Norah Jones: Phenomenal, Amanda. Thanks for sharing that story. Clearly the joy and passion were there for you. Turn to our listeners now. What would you invite them to think about, do, remember based on your life or what they’ve heard today?

0:27:58.1 Amanda Seewald: I would invite everyone as you reflect each day on the things that you’re doing to continue to look at other people around you and know that the stories that they have will teach you more about yourself. I would invite people to look for the stories and listen to other people’s stories so that you can become more open to the ways that you can attain your own Ikigai. And also the ways that you can reach out to help others. And I say that because it’s made such a difference in my life to be able to reach out. And just this past week, I found a book that’s called While the Earth Sleeps, We Travel. And they’re all stories and poetry and art from young refugees around the world written by Ahmed Badr.

0:28:55.0 Norah Jones: Wow.

0:28:56.3 Norah Jones: And it’s a collection. And it’s interesting, one of the things he says that the word refugee is usually associated with both an ending and a beginning. An ending in that it represents the loss of a previous life, a previous security. The ending forces us into a kind of new beginning, one in which we must completely recreate our present in hopes of a better life. I love this quote. I just read it actually this week. And it made me think about… That’s something that everyone on some level can relate to, even if you’ve never had the horrible experience of having to leave your home country, your life to start new in small micro ways, we might have to end things and start new, start anew. But when this message is amplified and when we think about how people’s lives changed or were extinguished. And they never had the chance to start over or or move on. I really think that this is where every one of us can take our own identities and understand others.

0:30:09.7 Norah Jones: In a sense, you’re just stated that, as you say, every one of us in micro ways or traumatically large ways can be refugees. It does have to do with loss of voice and culture, doesn’t it, Amanda?

0:30:30.4 Amanda Seewald: It has to do tremendously with loss of voice and culture. And while there are many refugees in this book who can identify their language, their culture and their losses so clearly, I think that that’s what we need to hear, because especially for someone like me, who for me, the loss is just a wall of horror that I can’t get past to actually know the people or the or the things that happened before then.

0:31:00.2 Amanda Seewald: For these young refugees who came to this country recently. To be able to hear that language and know those memories and not to be able to live them and experience them as you move into a new space and have to learn a whole new set of things, this is something we all have to understand. And I don’t mean understand that we have to have that experience, but we have to know that that experience is what drives a person. That is that the experience of understanding another. It’s all about empathy. And I actually think that identity is completely tied to the way that you can learn to empathize with the people around you and to know their stories and to hear them and make connections, as I said, in small ways, maybe or in very large ways to the things that you have seen, heard and experienced.

0:31:55.0 Norah Jones: Thank you for that. To be able to express the concept of our own identity is dependent on our understanding of the world around us and of other’s position in that world.

0:32:07.6 Amanda Seewald: Mm-hmm.

0:32:09.7 Norah Jones: Powerful.

0:32:09.7 Amanda Seewald: And that’s and that’s necessarily tied to language and culture. And I think that that as a language educator now, after all of these years of seeing how language has affected my life. I can honestly say that this is why language and culture are so much so essential, as essential as science and math in many ways more to allow us to be able to get to the conversations, to the ideas and to the understandings and the empathy that we all need to achieve.

0:32:40.4 Norah Jones: Language and culture are part of our identities in a way that I suspect I know I’m biased, but nevertheless, I still suspect that science and mathematics or even facts about history cannot touch. Language and culture are human nature aspects.

0:33:02.5 Amanda Seewald: Yes, like DNA. I think that language and culture is the DNA of identity.

0:33:07.9 Norah Jones: You know, Amanda, I really appreciate the fact that we have moved in the direction of talking about how, again, the identity of oneself is enhanced by understanding the identity of others and not challenged by it, not threatened by it. You have a tremendous self-identity now continuing to be developed and so forth based on your reflection and all of your work throughout of the years. And that concept, that identity is coming from your work seems like such a powerful gift.

0:33:54.7 Amanda Seewald: I feel as though the experiences that I’ve had, the people I’ve met and the ways that I’ve been afforded the privilege to listen to others, in ways that many other Americans may not if they don’t speak another language. But that ability to listen is something that I wouldn’t trade for anything. And I think that without it, I simply cannot imagine who I am. And as I think back and think about the way I’ve raised my children to know that language is a central, essential part of life, I don’t know how different they would be without it. And I can see how languages and cultures have helped them define themselves as well. And to me, that’s the best gift that we can give to all of our children and all of our students is that understanding that you enhance your life and you enhance your possibilities as you grow your ability to listen.

0:35:06.7 Norah Jones: And we’re listening to our ancestors as well as to, in a sense, the future.

0:35:13.7 Amanda Seewald: Yes, and that’s really something that I’ve only recently as at this age that I’ve really been able to get in touch with for myself is to understand that part of that magnetic type connection to language and culture, that desire for it, that need for it for me comes from the what I’ve felt is almost an absence of it in my own family history and because of an inability to know the past the way that I wish I could.

0:35:49.2 Norah Jones: Are you finding that path?

0:35:52.9 Amanda Seewald: I think that the way that I do it is to keep listening, to keep learning, to keep broadening the way that I can hear different people’s stories, and then it allows me to think back on what the stories of my ancestors must have been. Everything, from a work of fiction to the stories of refugees to the people that I meet in every aspect of my work and in my personal life, allows me to make connections. And isn’t that what we want all of our learners to do? Isn’t that an education and isn’t that what we want as parents for our children to be able to do is to be able to find a way to know themselves and know their past, their present, and the possibilities of the future by understanding others.

0:36:44.4 Norah Jones: Beautifully said, Amanda, thank you so much. You’ve been very generous with yourself in a very deep way. Thank you for sharing all of this with us today.

0:36:54.6 Amanda Seewald: Well, Norah, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk about things that are sometimes not what I get a chance to discuss. So thank you for giving me this chance to be introspective. And I hope that… I hope that others take the time to do it as well.

0:37:07.6 Norah Jones: I’m confident they will. And thank you again so much. And do take care and keep on that investigation, that growth, that learning.

0:37:48.5 Amanda: Absolutely.

0:37:49.7 Norah Jones: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with your friends, family and colleagues. Let’s continue the conversation. Be sure to check out my website, fluencyonline.com to learn more about our guests and to check out the resources and information they’ve shared with us there. I have other ideas, resources and opportunities there for you too. Again, thanks so much for listening. And until next time.

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