Opening Doors Through Language: Leslie McIver on Communication, Confidence & Human Connection

How languages create opportunities, build confidence, and connect people—from the classroom to 35,000 feet.

Episode Summary

In this episode of It’s About Language, Norah Jones talks with educator and flight attendant Leslie McIver about the unexpected ways language has shaped her life and career.

Leslie discusses how learning multiple languages opened professional doors she never anticipated, from teaching world languages to assisting international travelers across the United States. She explains why proficiency—not perfection—is the true goal of language learning and encourages learners to embrace mistakes as part of the journey.

The conversation explores innovative teaching strategies, including Leslie’s use of music to increase student engagement, reduce dependence on AI translation tools, and encourage authentic communication. She also reflects on former students who became language educators themselves and the lasting impact that enthusiastic teaching can have.

Throughout the conversation, Leslie reminds listeners that while technology can support language learning, it can never replace the human connection created when people speak to one another in another language.

“Don’t give up. Be patient with it. Be patient with yourself. Fluency doesn’t happen overnight.”

— Leslie McIver

What You’ll Learn

• Why language learning opens unexpected career opportunities
• The difference between fluency and proficiency
• How making mistakes builds confidence
• Using music to improve language acquisition
• Why authentic conversation matters more than perfect grammar
• The role of technology and AI in language education
• How language creates meaningful human connections
• Inspiring the next generation of language educators

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Key Topics

• Language education
• Multilingualism
• Human connection
• Language proficiency
• Language teaching
• Music in education
• AI in language learning
• World languages
• Cultural competence
• Career development

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About the Guest

Leslie McIver is a French and Spanish educator with decades of experience teaching world languages. In addition to teaching online, she serves as a flight attendant, where her multilingual skills help travelers from around the world navigate unfamiliar situations with confidence and comfort. Leslie is passionate about making language learning engaging through music, authentic communication, and meaningful human connection.

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Memorable Moments

• Helping frightened passengers by speaking their language.
• Rediscovering Italian after twenty years during a trip to Rome.
• Explaining why “proficient” is a better goal than “fluent.”
• Using music to transform online language instruction.
• Former students becoming Spanish teachers and university professors.
• Why technology should support—not replace—language learning.
• The importance of embracing mistakes as part of communication.

Transcript

Norah Jones (00:00)
thanks for doing this, Leslie. This is great.

Leslie McIver (00:02)
Of course I’m honored in anything to get to see you again.

Norah Jones (00:05)
I just what I absolutely love about the language community, is that we don’t lose friends. We just keep connecting because that’s what humans do when they’re about language. So let’s let’s find out what is it that you’re like, I really am looking forward to sharing this about my

Experience in the language world

Leslie McIver (00:28)
Languages have opened up more doors than I ever imagined and it just continues to keep opening doors everywhere I turn. and in ways I really never thought. So for me, it feels very natural because things just keep falling into place, you know, even unplanned.

So I’m a flight attendant now. I’m also still teaching. I teach online, French and Spanish. The flight attendant…

piece is something that I never really thought I would use my language skills so much. Maybe in a trip abroad, of course. But there so many speakers of other languages right here in the United States

I find that when I’m on, especially going to Miami or going to certain parts of the country, I find a lot of…

people that don’t speak English and we may not have a dedicated language speaker on the flight. And so just being able to help those people, especially when they’re scared or they’re confused or they don’t know where to go or there’s a delay or some kind of hiccup. It’s really great to see that look on their face or they’re like, you speak Spanish.

I recently got a trip to Rome and I have not spoken Italian in 20 years and it really came back quickly and it was, it was exciting to hear it again and to be able to sort of navigate on my layover in restaurants and just in the streets without having to just feel like, ⁓ I don’t know anything.

Norah Jones (01:58)
interesting you’re reflecting such a an excitement and a joy in just the experience of being able to use languages and hear them and to be able to bring joy to others, relief What is it that brought you the ability to with languages? What

What background do you have in learning them and applying them? You mentioned that you you teach online, but how did you get these languages under your belt?

Leslie McIver (02:24)
Well, it started with one. Well, I started in kindergarten with French, but I really focused on Spanish later in life. And I think once I learned one, I found that it was easier to learn other, especially romance languages.

I mastered Spanish first and then I minored in Italian and

then I found, wow, Italian’s really similar to French and the written language. so, but you know, phonetically it’s closer to Spanish. And so that way, then it was easier to pick up French. that sort of just.

took its own path for me as I started teaching Spanish and I just thought well you know what they’re cutting programs everywhere and I better have a backup. So I really started working on my French

Norah Jones (03:09)
To talk about that sense here, you just mentioned about cutting programs and the different kinds of ⁓ directions Yet language has opened so many doors for you. How do you bring an insight into what language can do for the students that you come across or any anyone,

How do you get across the importance of languages and why why we might be headed in a direction that’s not as helpful?

Leslie McIver (03:35)
Right, so that’s always a battle with, especially that I found in higher ed, with administration wanting to cut language. You’ve got this dynamic of students are afraid of languages and there’s a lot of fear around learning another language because they think it’s so hard. And as adults, they don’t want to make mistakes or look silly. But yet every single person I talk to,

wants to know another language and they’ll say that, ⁓ wish I could speak another, ⁓ wish I was fluent. And I think a lot of the reason people quit early is because they expect too much too soon

You know, the goal is learning to communicate and, you know, as you progress in the language, if you stay with it, that’s going to become easier and easier as you acquire more grammar and vocabulary. So the trick is to stick with it. And,

I tell them how it’s opened up lot of doors for me, not only personally, but professionally in the job market. if you are young students who are entering the job market, if you have another language or you’re proficient in another language, and I try to discourage the use of fluent.

And if, but if you’re proficient, that’s going to give you an edge over another person that’s not. sort of trying to encourage that, Hey, this is going to help you professionally. Personally, when you travel, it’s going to be a much different experience when you go abroad. If you know some have some language skills, some proficiency, then if you have none and you’re going to, your experience is going to be a lot different.

Norah Jones (05:14)
try to discourage them from using the word fluent, but rather proficient. How do you help them to understand the difference between fluency, which indeed is how most folks that are not engaged in language tend the word they tend to choose, and proficient.

Leslie McIver (05:30)
So for me, I tell students, you’re probably…

it’s going to take a long time for you to feel fluent, for you to say, I’m fluent in French or I’m fluent in Spanish. And that’s okay. But proficiency is being able to navigate the language with the tools that you have. So I try to discourage translating, stop thinking in English, say what you can with the tools that you have. And if you don’t have it, try to

describe it and that sort of exchange with a native speaker or a speaker is going to encourage more language and is going to encourage more proficiency and you’re going to you know you’re getting more input you’re getting more language as you as you converse with other people as you go through this process and that’s how that’s how it happens

So.

Norah Jones (06:20)
How do you help

them to overcome the very natural desire to avoid making mistakes?

Leslie McIver (06:27)
It just practice and I really and they I feel like They may hate it but I really make them do a lot of chats and get together with their partners and Practice because if you don’t practice you’re never going to speak. It’s never going to you’re never going to feel comfortable You have to sort of break down those barriers and that happens with more practice and you learn you gain a little confidence and then that’s a step forward so

That is really what I’ve seen help. I’ve tried something new this year in my classes that I’ve really been shocked at the result. And a lot of times with these chats, students are just reading the screen and it grossly mispronouncing. And it’s just very obvious they’ve typed it into AI or translator and they’re just reading off their screens.

You know, they’re using AI, I’m going to use it too. I’ve got to beat them at this. I’ve got to stay one step ahead of this if I expect them to learn anything. Otherwise, they’re just learning how to cheat the system, especially teaching in an online asynchronous environment. So I have started using music and writing music and creating activities for them where they can’t cheat.

They have to listen to the music answer a few questions and then they get together with their partner and discuss it, you know, there’s 50-50 the target language and then questions about feedback that they heard.

they’re hearing it in the music and so they’re mimicking it and the output has been amazing. I mean it’s just really revitalized me and given me so much inspiration to see that reflected in their speaking and they’re loving it. I’m loving it

Norah Jones (08:06)
Where did that inspiration for you come from? How did you choose music versus any other kind of prompt?

Leslie McIver (08:14)
It really has. Well, like you said, I’ve been in publishing for a long time, so it’s been sort of, you know, the last 25 years, the same process. And yes, we have come a long way. The publishing field has really advanced, especially technology wise, and that’s been great. Have I seen that reflection in students? Some, yes, absolutely. But there’s still been a missing piece.

And funny you ask, I broke my ankle and I was non-weight bearing in bed for several months and I just was thinking, what can I do differently? I’ve got all this time on my hands. And music was really, it’s another language. And it helped me learn.

languages. I used a lot of music. would listen. I would write down the lyrics. I would learn these expressions and use them. So I thought, you know, if this is another way to reach them, why not try? And I did. And it’s just, it’s just been fantastic.

Norah Jones (09:08)
And what kind of feedback do you get from the students? Do they along with their performance, do they mention that they are enjoying this, that this is a method that helps them?

Leslie McIver (09:18)
Absolutely and it’s encouraging for me to hear their feedback on each song because some of them will say, wow this is a little more difficult than the last unit. That was, they, it was faster because I get them no lyrics. I give them the lyrics after their chat and they tell me they’re really excited. They look forward to seeing the video posted with the lyrics so they can check themselves.

It’s been overwhelming their response. I honestly see a renewed excitement for learning and speaking. They look forward to the groups now instead of dreading it.

Norah Jones (09:53)
That’s fantastic. We have two things going on there. One is, of course, the music and the fact that human beings respond positively to music And and the other is that you’re having them speak to one another.

not just beaver away at their own piece of paper or digital digital document. You’ve put together the two very human experiences.

Leslie McIver (10:11)
Exactly.

Norah Jones (10:16)
Whether it’s someone from your family or

You have kiddos or and or students that you have had in your courses.

learners of all various ages, where they have had a breakthrough.

where they have realized something about themselves and about the role of language in their life what they’ve experienced in studying and potentially when working with you.

Leslie McIver (10:39)
A lot, shockingly. I have a lot of students that are now Spanish teachers and they come back and tell me how influenced they were by my course or just their connection with me. I’m really personable. I’m very animated, obviously. There’s two in particular that I have to mention.

It’s almost sentimental to me because they are just so moving. So one, I taught for five years at a private Christian school in Atlanta. And I had a student in my class every year in high school, the same student. And she was, she was, you know, very sweet and good student. Nothing like

I ever got the impression that she just loved Spanish. I think just she liked my class and her friends would take they would all take it together kind of had the same cohort and she later reached out to me and said I think she sent a picture and said guess where I am I said I don’t know and she was in my classroom teaching Spanish in the same classroom where I taught her.

Norah Jones (11:46)
wow. Wow.

Leslie McIver (11:47)
Yeah,

that was really special. And then I had another one that reached out. He is now a full professor and he is at, I think University of Tennessee. And he said, I just had to tell you, I mean, this was maybe 20 years, 10, maybe 15 years after he was in my class and I never heard he,

graduated and went on his way and he said, I just had to let you know, your course, your class influenced me so much, specifically the Lazardio de Torname story that we, and they would act it out. And it was hilarious. We would act out a chapter and they loved it. They were so into it. He said it influenced him so much that he later went on and studied

Norah Jones (12:24)
Mm-hmm.

Leslie McIver (12:35)
got his PhD in Spanish literature and now he teaches it there at the university.

Norah Jones (12:43)
Wow. Interesting.

PhD in l in the literature, no less. Wow. Phenomenal. that’s gotta be very gratifying.

Leslie McIver (12:47)
All right.

Norah Jones (12:51)
And you brought up personally the animation that you bring. I know that in in my history too, that I my start was in seventh grade Spanish, and I still remember Miss Hoffman’s energy and enthusiasm that helped me to fall in love with.

something that clearly brought a lot of joy to another human. And it’s you bring that to what you are doing with all of the students that you have had. That’s very, very neat. You know, another thing too is you mentioned about the drama. They acted out Lazarillo de Torres and and this the the human body being engaged in language. We come at it again, the singing, the drama

the ability to get up and move, that really changes lives, doesn’t it?

Leslie McIver (13:38)
It does. You know why? Because you’re pairing something fun with a learning experience. And so I think that that sticks in the mind as, this is fun. And so that that’s just how I see it. It’s not something scary or dreadful when you walk into that classroom. We’re going to have fun today. What are we going to do? So I think that making the learning experience itself enjoyable helps ease that fear and

⁓ encourages them to keep coming back. That’s harder to capture online and that’s why I think the music is something that I really want to explore more and just one semester of doing this music has just and I did it in both classes French and Spanish. I’m shocked. I’m just feeling more you know inspired and ready to keep growing that piece of it.

Norah Jones (14:26)
How will you be growing that? What what are some of your ideas? What are what are your plans and thoughts about that as you ex continue your experimentation?

Leslie McIver (14:34)
Well, so I’ve only written music for levels one and a little bit of two for Spanish. So to just keep trying. So I use our publishers content. use their grammar points and

vocabulary and I incorporate those specific grammar points that they’re already learning and that vocabulary and I put it in a context and it’s not like, hola means hello, it’s nothing like that. It’s a story and I pair it with a video that

So they’ve got the visual, they’ve got the audio, and they’re seeing it. And I do hear them say, seeing the audio helped me, seeing the video helped me understand what they were saying. So I am going to continue to try to, they’re time consuming, they really are, but to develop that so I can have every unit, every chapter.

for all the levels that I teach. so that’s kind of the goal right now. And I just, you I’m excited. We’ve got summer coming up, summer session, and I’m putting together my classes now and I’m excited. So it is, it really is. So I’m excited. I mean, I’m techie and linguisticky both. So to be able to combine those is fun for me.

Norah Jones (15:41)
This is a real breakthrough you are describing. A real breakthrough, a real tool.

What would you say then to educators that are listening to this, ⁓ or parents or learners, and they’re like, I I wanna learn more about this. How do they how how would they go about it? What would you s what would you recommend or what would you like to share?

Leslie McIver (16:09)
You mean for them to find music or I mean there’s resources everywhere. I know that I have shared my resources online for people to explore and I put them on Facebook and teacher sites and you know that requires a lot of

of time and effort and work that I don’t really have. So I haven’t really explored that a lot.

YouTube I think it’s just such a wonderful resource in looking for for music and there’s just so many programs established programs out there that can facilitate that it just so it takes a little bit of work.

Norah Jones (16:47)
you had mentioned that you have, along with your ongoing teaching, you have now morphed into the ⁓ airline industry and into being a flight attendant and so forth, and already having a chance to experience the impact of the language. Do you have

Other ways that your cultural and linguistic backgrounds, your insights can be of use through the language in your experience in as a flight attendant?

Leslie McIver (17:15)
Absolutely. You know, we’re talkers. We like to connect with people and language is the way that we do that. So I think that we have, to connect with different personality types. And that has come in so handy. It’s been really helpful as a flight attendant because, you know, I can kind of read my passengers

So to be able to read them and know how to speak to them has been really helpful. But the different…

cultures that you encounter in aviation on an airplane is shocking. And I mean, I never really thought about it, but I just, you know, yesterday I was on a flight and I was just having so much fun with the passengers. And a guy pulled my arm.

he pulled me back and he’s looked at me dead in the face. He goes, you are a gem of a person. I was like, So I just, it kind of hit me. People want that connection. And I think that as we get more and more in a technological world where, you know,

we’re just alone and isolated. People want that connection and so it’s just great. It’s great for me. I love it.

Norah Jones (18:23)
That is an a very important insight into what we could and will define as communication ongoing.

People have got a lot of decisions to make. You started out this conversation by mentioning that courses are being cut.

Yet we have these very important aspects that we’ve talked about here today. When you, with your insights, turn to the decisions that are going to be made in various countries, the United States among them, but others how do people need to be viewing communication, proficiency, connection, and the role of humans in this challenging time?

Leslie McIver (19:03)
Well, like the example of the Polish family on my flight yesterday and you know, I felt.

sad and you know almost apologetic that I didn’t know any Polish to be able to communicate with them but their English was so good and I think that we kind of fall into that habit of just expecting them to speak English to us. Well I don’t really need to speak another language because I’ve got Google Translate right here on my phone I can use. They’re going to probably know English and so we want to take the easy route and just expect

to be done for us and now with technology it can be you know I see people all the time speaking into their phone and they’ve given it to someone else in order to communicate

you may always have that tool but what you’re missing there is still that ability to connect with other people and you know when you hear your native language this goes for both both ways just as we are happy and relieved when we they can speak english to us

They also feel the same when we can speak their language to them. And so that connection is just an unspoken thing. So you lose that with technology. Now I do think technology is a great tool to help you learn. And I encourage my students, I have an AI tip of the week. I think it’s a great tool. There’s a lot of great tools.

but don’t let those tools be a substitute for you actually learning the language because there’s just something about the human connection when you’re able to speak to someone else in their language and then do the same that you just, you can’t get with technology, you can’t get with a computer. So, and in the moment, it may not be handy. So that’s just.

it’s not always an option and i would just you know you’re missing that human piece

Norah Jones (20:48)
Interesting too, I’m reflecting

for example they are taking Spanish, that the only thing that they’re going to get out of that is Spanish.

But some of the learning I think that happens is to understand how few words need to be spoken in order to connect with someone’s spirit and heart.

Leslie McIver (21:08)
And it’s funny you say that because I used to, I had an immersion preschool for a number of years and one of the parents who eventually came to work for me,

I actually learned a lot of Hungarian from her. And because she was always talking to her child. And so that teacher talk that you know, caretaker speech, the slow and the repetitive, I learned a lot of Hungarian and it’s funny because now when I meet someone from Hungary, I can say, your aunt’s here. And if I throw that line out to someone, they laugh and

some Hungarian your aunt’s here. Even if it’s silly they’re hearing it and I don’t know it’s just a way to connect they’re like ⁓ she took the time to learn a little bit about my language my culture so even if I know a little bit I’ll try to use it it’s just a way to connect with that person.

Norah Jones (22:02)
Well, you also just demonstrated that you use something silly And there it again we return to the I don’t want to look foolish that keeps humans from reaching out into other languages until they receive the recognition through language training that

The foolishness that they fear is actually the opening for the connection that they need.

Leslie McIver (22:25)
Yeah, you know, it’s funny, you just made me realize something. I think the more that we learn and have had those moments of feeling silly and foolish, you stop caring. I could care less if I make a mistake. I just want to get my message across. And I think that that kind of lightens the mood a little bit, even if you are making mistakes. And it just kind of furthers that.

ability to connect with another person because you know we’re all human. We’re going to make mistakes. you know I think and possibly that’s why I don’t really care about looking foolish. Maybe that learning process and having to go through it so many times has sort of lightened me up a little bit and opened me up to the idea of hey we’re we all make mistakes.

So I remember when I first started teaching, if I made, I just couldn’t make a mistake. ⁓ my students are gonna know I can’t make a mistake. It’s okay. Even in my role, and even as I’m supposed to be up here all knowing, I am not all knowing. And I tell them, I make mistakes all the time. And I try to ease their fears of it’s going to happen. You’re not a native speaker.

And no one thinks you are.

Norah Jones (23:36)
When you look out at the world and you know the people are listening and you have these experiences and yeah, these these

Sharings that you have done. What is it that you want to be sure that people hear from you? Because by golly, you believe this with all of your heart. You may have said it already, but you want to say it again. You haven’t said it yet, and you don’t want this time to end without you saying it. However, you would like to interpret that, what is it people need to know from Leslie McGivre?

Leslie McIver (24:06)
Don’t give up. Be patient with it. Be patient with yourself. I tell students all the time fluency doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time and like anything great worth having in this world it takes work. Whether it’s a great job or a great marriage it all takes work so it’s it’s not easy.

But don’t give up. That’s my biggest message.

Norah Jones (24:28)
Thank you. And it’s a great message. And thanks for not giving up yourself and thinking about brand new things all the time, new and creative things. Thanks so much, Leslie, for being here.

Leslie McIver (24:39)
Thank you, Nora.

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